Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Entrepreneurship's like a roller coaster. You're going to have highs, you're going to have lows. But it's the consistency and the dedication, the discipline to what you're doing that will give you the ultimate outcome that you want.
[00:00:11] Speaker B: Yo, Mike Chek. What's up, everybody? You're listening to the street pricing podcast, the only show where proven SaaS leaders share their mindset and mistakes in pricing. So we can all stop guessing and start growing. Enjoy. Subscribe, and tell a friend. Now, let's break it down with your host and sought after slayer of bad pricing, Marcos Rivera.
[00:00:34] Speaker C: What's up? And welcome to the Street Pricing podcast. I'm Marcos Rivera, author, founder and pricing coach. And today's guest knows a little something about growing businesses. He's a six time entrepreneur with two exits under his belt. Ladies and gentlemen, today I have Paul. PJ Jackson. Paul, welcome to the show.
[00:00:52] Speaker A: Thank you, Marcus. Privileged and honored to be here. So thank you for having me.
[00:00:56] Speaker C: I'm so excited to have you. And one thing I would love to do is if you can give everyone just a quick background on who you are and what you do.
[00:01:03] Speaker A: Before we get rolling, just call me PJ. It's quite straightforward and easy to remember. Six time entrepreneur, go to market strategist, coach, mentor, and entrepreneur. And that's what I do. I help people grow their businesses.
[00:01:16] Speaker C: And growing a business, I'll tell you, this, involves, like a thousand different things, right? You gotta maintain so many vectors and keep them moving forward. So pricing is one of those big vectors, which is why I'm super excited to talk to you. But it's not only pricing, like, there's other things around it. And so we're going to broaden things a little bit today. I'm going to go a little off course, but before we get rolling, I wanted to give everybody just a quick roadmap for what we do. So this show, based on the book street pricing, has a section of rewind where we go back and we talk about a pricing story, a struggle, a success, whatever that is, so we can all learn from it. Then we come to the present with play. What's really working today, what's really been effective in helping you grow, and then we have the fast forward. And the fast forward is really all about what's going to happen in the future. Let's talk about what's next. Now, be careful, because I'm going to throw you my curveball question at the end of this. My favorite question of all time. So you got to be ready for that. But otherwise, if you're ready to get straight, I'm ready. Let's jump in. PJ, man, give me a story.
[00:02:13] Speaker A: I've got a couple stories I'd like to share. And going back is to when I was working with a world class, I would say world class, but one of the largest media companies in the world. They had a solo division that was basically sitting dormant for eight years, and they needed to broaden the scope. They needed to go to market. Long story short, it involved getting the buy in from about ten different departments and building 20 different market segments that they could go into. So content syndication, image licensing, things of that nature. And how do you price that? Like, if they're creating editorial images and you want to commercialize it, how do you start to build out that brand, so to speak, but also make sure you monetize it at a value that's not undermining your expertise, undermining your growth, all of those kind of things. So what I actually had to do, in a nutshell, is to bring in all the different department heads, bring in 168 different photographers, and tell them how this is going to help them and how it's going to serve them, and what I was going to do to basically put together a pricing structure that would obviously value their images that they took, because they're creators, right? And as you know, creatives are very precious on their style, their skill set, whether it was paintbrush or whether it's with a camera. And I brought them all on board. It took me six months to massage the relationship, to get their buy in. And how I did it, basically, in a nutshell, was I paid the photographers a royalty for taking an image outside of a editorial landscape. So if I'm a photographer, I'm at a shoot, for argument's sake, and it's for an editorial masthead. How can I turn that environment, that situation into a commercial aspect? And some of these photographers got some decent sized checks, and then I would take that image, and then I would push it out into the marketplace. And you spoke earlier about 2011, September 11. And I've licensed an image to that museum, which I'm so honored and so privileged to be able to have done for 40 years so that they can demonstrate and showcase that one image. And the pricing structure I went about it is the intrinsic value and the positive impact it's going to have into the marketplace and how that is going to affect people for the future. And I think some of that emotion and how we go about that pricing, place some part in it as well.
[00:04:51] Speaker C: That's. No, that's a very, that's a fantastic story on multiple fronts. Right. I'm really curious on how you actually pull that off. 168 photographers, ten departments. I know somebody, somebody was saying no, somebody was kicking and screaming. Like, I got to know, how did you win them over? Because that's fantastic. To get that data, to get that information 100%.
[00:05:11] Speaker A: Marcus, it was a coup when I think about it, and I get goosebumps thinking about it, because that's why it took so long. Because when you've kind of been working in a set environment in the sets department for so long, you become a little bit intuitionalized and you become sort of set in your ways. So how do you break that frame, that mind set on to do something different? And the way I did it is I kept pushing what was in it for them, how this was going to impact them, how this was going to affect them in a positive way, and what the ROI was for them. And I continually had that conversation weekly, sometimes daily, monthly at minimum, and kept getting the photographers on sites that they would be my advocates. So instead of having ten salespeople, I had 178 salespeople, and we were already paying for them. But to build that advocacy, I had to drive that value. And that value was, what is it in for me that I can get extra without putting out any extra effort?
[00:06:12] Speaker C: That, yeah, that is the key. And a lot of times when folks are resisting, it's usually because they feel there's either there's lack of safety for them or something's going to harm or get into the way of their goals. So flipping it to understanding what is it, what's in it for them, which is not a new technique, but it's actually not as often practiced as you would think. But that's a really effective way to get folks over to your side. And then you said the royalty model worked super well, but how'd you come up with the number? I gotta ask you the hard question, man. How'd you come up with the actual royalty percentage? People want to know, how'd you do it?
[00:06:46] Speaker A: To be honest, to be totally transparent.
[00:06:49] Speaker C: I went, oh, you did the guesswork.
[00:06:52] Speaker A: I did. I did. Because there were so many moving parts, Marcus, at this time, there were so many department heads that were involved in the decision making process, though ultimately, I was the decision maker. I had to get the buy in, but it was also what I could afford. I did copyright licensing, copyright law infringements. If I'm licensing something of that nature, you know, a couple hundred thousand dollars, it can have a domino effect. So the reason I came up with the price that I did for the photographer specifically is because you're already getting paid for to do a job. This is like a salesman's commission. So how do you base a salesman's commission based upon a percentage of their OTE and what the market value is? So I took the market value on that particular image, and then I applied a percentage to that price on what I got. So if the price that I licensed to Mary Lou, for argument's sake, was 20 grand, a percentage of that would become available to the photographer based on a commission rate. Basically.
[00:07:55] Speaker C: Got it. Got it. Now, most commission rates kind of fall sub. Well, it depends on what it is. Right.
Imagining that you had to tier it somehow. So something that was a million dollars versus something that's $1,000. Right. The rates are kind of somewhat reasonable to, I don't know, general willingness to pay or general area. Right. And so it's interesting because when, now that you look back, right. You look back at that story, do you wonder, do you think you went a little too low? A little too high? What are your thinking? If you were to do it again, how would you do it?
[00:08:26] Speaker A: I do it exactly the same way.
[00:08:28] Speaker C: You do it again.
[00:08:29] Speaker A: Yeah, 100%. And the reason being is because I'm thinking of a particular image that I licensed, and it was for two hundred thirty eight k, and it was for five years, and was to a worldwide agency, and they wanted for a certain campaign, for a certain pharmaceutical, that particular photographer got a check for number of thousands of dollars. And that was based upon whether that was a $2,000 image, the percentage was exactly the same. Whether it was a $238,000 image. To me, it didn't matter, because I needed your skill set, I needed your creativity, and I needed you to think outside of your square of an editorial shot, to a creative shot. And that takes a skill set, because you're either an editorial photographer or you're a creative photographer or whatever. So I needed them to be in that frame of mind so that they didn't have to worry about, if I do this, I get this. If I get this, I do this. I wanted you to have one percentage that whatever that percentage was and whatever, I could maximize it, as in the sale price. They trusted me enough that I would do the right thing, and I did. And I think that also played a big part in that trust and building that rapport and that relationship, knowing that I'm going to do the right thing, not only by myself, but by you.
[00:09:47] Speaker C: Fascinating. So you're, you're. You actually designed it. So that way the pricing is not really a big influencing factor. You wanted it to almost be invisible in the background and let them be creative and do their thing. That's what you were after, right?
[00:09:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:00] Speaker C: Lots of psychology behind that. Oh, man, I could unpack that one for days. Lots of psychology. Excellent, man. Well, listen, and doing that and bringing in those ten departments and all those photographers together, man, if you had to give everybody, like the big, like, listen, if you're trying to tackle such a gnarly pricing or gross scenario, like that one, which I think, thinking about it, how long did it take you? It took a while, right? Six months.
[00:10:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:24] Speaker C: Yeah. So that. That one was a labor for sure. What was that biggest lesson that you would give somebody who maybe would be in the same scenario? What would you tell them to do?
[00:10:33] Speaker A: Think about what's in it for them. I mean, pricing is a finicky kind of thing in my mind, in my opinion, because it's subjective and there's a huge amount of examples I could give you, but I went in with the intent. That is, what am I going to give you that's of value to you based upon your role, based upon what you need? If I can deliver that, that's 60% of my job done, because I'm going to get your buy in straight away, and then the rest of it is just a process. We'll do this. We'll do that. We'll make sure of this. We'll make sure of that. So the biggest thing I went in with is, and I sat for days at my desk thinking, how the hell am I going to work this out? And then it just, well, what's in it for them? How can I give you so much value that it's hard for you to turn around and say no? And that's what it took.
[00:11:26] Speaker C: Team, I want to take a quick pause here to ask you for a huge favor that'll mean a lot to me. Please review and share the show. Share it with your. Your team, your friends, your peers. Not only will it help them stop the guesswork in pricing, but it'll also help you and increase the chances that you'll take action and change for yourself. All right, much love. Now back to the show. There's a saying out there, I think it's from Alex Hormozi likes to say that, how do you sell? How do you make the offer so good that they feel stupid, say no to it, right. Or something like that. Right? Probably. But, but the point is, like, it's gotta be like, the offer has to be like ultra enticing, right? Like that's kind of step one a in a lot of this. So even before or even before the pricing problem you solve, you want to make the offer super good. So that way what's in it for them is a little more obvious. Right. And you're not kind of fighting tooth and nail to make that realization.
So that's a big one there as well. But something that came out of this, I'm going to move us into the play because there's something that really you're saying, but you're not saying. So I want to make sure we talk about this. Right, because you work with a lot of different entrepreneurs, right. And you work with them in early stages, you work with them when they're growing. And so if you, I'm wondering if you are a guesser and your confessions of guessing is here today, I want to hear more about this. Right. Cause you don't have all the data like PJ, like, what do you have to work with? You don't have a huge analysis to deal with. And I wanna, I wanna hear how you were able to these days help entrepreneurs who are trying to grow, trying to sell their product, trying to get those first ten customers. How do you help them with their first pricing model, with their first prices, their first deals? Just walk me through the framework, man. Tell me what you do.
[00:13:07] Speaker A: As you said, I'm brutally honest and transparent, so I will be. Is I ask, what do you want? What do you ultimately want? Why are you doing this and what do you want it to deliver to you? Because I find, and it doesn't matter whether I'm talking to an MD of a 40 million arrow, somebody who wants to be a coach and wants to earn five k a month, or somebody who wants to earn a couple of hundred grand a month. The same intent, the same purpose is underlining why they're doing what they're doing. So once I establish, why are you doing this? And I'll give you an example, if I may. There was a particular person that wanted to transition from working from a disrupter into from a chief evangelist to being a coach. And she kind of was a coach, even in her role as a chief evangelist. And she was charging x amount of dollars, hundreds of dollars per hour. But the value she was giving was so ridiculous, it was so far stretched, it was actually costing her more in her time, in her relationships, in the value she could ultimately deliver long term. So therefore it wasn't sustainable. So she jumps on a call with me, we have a conversation, and I base it all around. Well, you know, let's say her name's Mary Lou. Mary Lou, what do you really want? What do you want to achieve by doing this and going out on your own? So we had that discussion. I said, now write down the top ten things that are most important to you. Now highlight the next five that are most important. They can be 14892 whatever. Out of those five, what is the one thing that's most important? And with this particular person, it turned out that to have the flexibility to be able to spend more time with her daughter, but also earn more than what she was earning before.
How much do you really need? I just want to earn what I was earning at my last company. And I said, okay, but who's going to pay for your sick days, who's going to pay for your holidays? Who's going to pay for the loading and et cetera, et cetera? Because I think a lot of entrepreneurs forget that, yeah, I might want to earn 100 grand a year, but in actual fact, to earn that hundred grand, you might need to actually turn over 300 grand or 400 grand, depending. Long story short is by. After a couple of sessions, we ended up her agreeing that she would a thousand. No, it was 100 x her price and she would start having that conversation. So for argument's sake, if she was charging $500, she's now charging $5,000. And it was based upon the same criteria that she wanted to give because that that value she wanted to give, she wanted to maintain and have that. And I said, but you're too cheap because people are starting to question, right, and this will go back into, you know, how I start doing my pricing now. But she was too cheap. People questioned it and now she went the next day and charged that exact same price. And that's all she's charging now. I mean, it's a little bit different. Obviously, those numbers a little bit fluctuated to showcase who it was. But the point being is that you have to think of it from a very not linear process because you have to understand that the pricing is subjective, yes, to competitors, to what people are prepared to pay, but you have to value what you're offering, services, product, whatever it is. So that not only do you feel comfortable in doing it, because many times in the beginning, I never priced so low that I wasn't comfortable, but you have to be comfortable enough in pricing so that you keep delivering and feel comfortable in delivering that value because people will expect it. And she's doing that now. And she's wrapped, like wrapped. She has the flexibility. She wants to say no, she charges a crapload of money. And so she should, because she's freaking good at what she does and you should be paid for what you do and how good you are.
[00:17:12] Speaker C: That's it. And it starts with you, like the couple things you said here that I want a lot of folks to remember, right? So it starts with you and what you value. Right. So if you're really in it to make a gajillion dollars, right, or you're really in it, to me, control of your time or be with family, whatever that is, that's the first thing you have to center yourself. Right. And this goes back to, even in business strategy, that applies to anything. What do you want? Sounds like a simple question. It actually is not. What do you want?
[00:17:40] Speaker A: All right.
[00:17:40] Speaker C: And that starts there. So if you're a business, I want to be, you know, number one market share in this market. I want to do this. I want to be, you know, the de facto, you know, number one premium provider of this or to a person is I want to make x amount of dollars and stay and spend time with my daughter. Right. So it could be whatever that is. But you have to be very ultra clear first. If that's blurry, how the price gets really blurry. Okay. And then when you said the next part, which is the offer mix, this is where it gets really interesting, right? Because you told them ten x more, 100 x more, whatever that is, like, go a bit higher. Most entrepreneurs, most businesses are undercharging for their value.
They get a little squeamish about it, especially when they start pushing that number up. Oh, is it really worth that? Are they really going to pay that? Is that really the right number? And then, so they shortchange themselves. And the very interesting thing that you're reminding me of now is that you yourself think more about pricing than your customer in many cases, right? And so you're already pre discounting yourself. And if that's not, if that's not aligning to what you really want, therein starts the problems. Right? Therein starts the problems. You're working extra hard for less. Your quality starts to drop as a result, which means your value even drops. And it becomes this really nasty, vicious cycle on the way down versus the virtuous cycle on the way up, which is I'm charging for what it's worth, maybe a little bit more. Why? Because I'm getting better. It's getting better. The software, the person, the services, whatever it is, it's getting better. I'm going to continue to charge, and I'm proud of what I'm charging, right? You make sure you're competitive. Obviously, you don't want to get wacky here, right? But I'm proud for what I'm charging. I earn it. The customers who pay it paid it and said it was worth it. Right? And then there, and then you get decent margins. You're able to invest, you're able to make it better, and then therein, you move up. So it's a very hard decision to make in the beginning of who you are, what you want. And those very, I'd say, core foundational pieces, if you don't do it, you could end up going down the wrong path. Right? And so for this particular one here in your example, and you can throw another one, I know you have like a thousand of these, right? But the point here is that getting very clear on that first is the step one. Not, gee, what's the number I need to slap on this product or this service? It's what do I want? And then you build up from there probably what most folks don't want to hear, because they just want the number, right? At the end of the day, I get it, but it doesn't come from the ether. You have to actually build it from the ground up. So when you were bringing on that example, you can flip to another one if you want to. When you try to get them to pick the number and pick the package or pick the position or whatever they need to get started and start winning some customers and getting some business in the door, how are you helping them land on that? Because they could be waffling around or not sure. How do you help them land?
[00:20:33] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a really good question. I smiled because that's exactly what happened in that example. So this person pushed back, and she turns around, she says, PJ, are you insane? Like, there is no way I'm charging that price. Are you insane? And I said, listen, if you don't charge that, because you're not now, how does it make you feel? Well, I'm undervalued, underappreciated. I'm too cheap. I'm this, I'm that. Okay, so what kind of price do you want to charge that will make you feel better about yourself, valued that you're delivering value? And then, and then she turns around and says, okay, let's say I agree to the pricing. What about how am I going to get clients? Well, how'd you get speaking engagements before when you were the chief evangelist for X Company? Well, I went on social media. I promoted myself. I spoke about what I did. I did this. I became a trusted advisor, an expert. Okay, so why can't you do that for yourself? Because inadvertently you were being paid to do that job anyway, and now you're going to get paid a little bit more and also have the flexibility and the control over when and what and how. Okay? So for me, when I talk to an entrepreneur or solopreneur or anybody about how do I build sales, it's all about what have you done in the past that you can replicate and therefore do it at scale for yourself. Now, sometimes people don't want to scale, and that's okay. But to get that first client in the door, you have to have that credibility, and you have to bridge that gap from here known. PJ's known as this. Now PJ wants to be known as this. How am I going to bridge that gap? You have to build that credibility. You have to build that trusted advisor and be a person that. Okay, I'm not an expert. Somebody called me an expert the other day, Marcos, and I said, listen, I'm not an expert, because to me, an expert is, you know, everything about everything. I don't. I've been around the block a couple of times, but the thing is, is that I'm still learning. But by bridging that gap, you're going to be able to get people to buy in on what you do. And she did that, and she's got her clients. She's building that momentum, and she's starting to grow her business to exactly where she wants it to go. And I think, you know, when you. When I look at where she's come from to where she is today and the turnover that she's got, like, it's like incredible stuff, because everything you say is simple. And we complicate things so much sometimes that it is that simple process that if you take a step back, look at it from a finite perspective and take a breath or breathe a little and then reflect and then move forward, you'll always come out in front, always.
[00:23:14] Speaker C: That. Yep. That is truth right there. But let me flip the script and ask you another question, the opposite question. What do you want? These entrepreneurs, it may be even this story as well. What should they never, ever do in this scenario, as they're trying to figure out their value in charge for what they're worth? What should they not do?
[00:23:35] Speaker A: Justify or apologize for the pricing.
[00:23:37] Speaker C: Ooh, I love it.
[00:23:39] Speaker A: Never.
[00:23:39] Speaker C: I love it.
[00:23:40] Speaker A: Never, ever, ever. The price is the price. Why are you pricing that much? So give you a quick example. I had somebody question my alley rate. My alley rates x and my, and somebody questioned it and they said, well, that's three, four times more than I'm getting paid. And I went, okay, I can appreciate that. I can appreciate the question and the concern even. So, why are you charging that price? Because I'm worth it. Because I can deliver what you're asking. If you and I have a conversation, and if you and I apply each other's skill set together, because together we can move forward. And it was funny because he turned around and he said to me, listen, PJ, he goes, you're charging an exorbitant amount of money compared to everyone else. And I said, but that's my differentiator, because I'm not everybody else. I am me.
[00:24:30] Speaker C: Ah, very, very. I love that. I love that. Standing on your own 2ft and saying you're worth it. I think when you're thinking about it as an entrepreneur out there, you get a lot of doubts. You're not sure quite yet. And so unapologetic about the pricing is, I think, a big lesson that we all should be hearing here. All right, one more. Let's move on from play to fast forward. Okay, so what's next? Right? You got all this AI stuff coming down, right? You have economies topsy turvy. We're in this recession that never comes, right? Like all this stuff that is changing in the world, technology moving fast, all the key things. Where do you think, when it comes to entrepreneurs starting a new business or someone that maybe is trying to grow over the next couple of years, what's the big trend we need to keep an eye out for?
[00:25:16] Speaker A: Embrace it all.
Everyone's a little bit concerned about AI and the impact it's going to have on the economy.
70% of the Fortune 500 companies I read the other day want to have a digital strategy, but they don't know how to go about it. And that's a big concern. But for me, as an entrepreneur, or anybody contemplating being an entrepreneur, is embrace the technology. Now is an ideal time where you can scale. People are talking about a one person company becoming the first billionaire, like first unicorn one person. And I don't disbelieve that, because if you take on AI and the automation that you can apply to an entrepreneur's role today and the intrinsic value it can add and how you can scale at speed, like, man, if I had this 2030 years ago, I'd be quantums further ahead than I am today. But I think everybody's a little bit nervous because it's new. You know, we remember two k or when we were the two yk, when we're going to turn over from the year 2000.
[00:26:22] Speaker C: That's right, the y two k thing.
[00:26:24] Speaker A: That's it.
[00:26:24] Speaker C: I remember that. Yeah.
[00:26:26] Speaker A: And everybody was nervous about it, freaking out.
And it's the same kind of principle. Everyone's a little bit nervous about AI, and there are so many people still not applying it or utilizing it. But I think if you don't, if you don't apply AI and embrace that technology, you're gonna be left behind and it's gonna be too hard for you to catch up to even start because there are gonna be so many people leaps and bounds ahead, you know, in every facet of entrepreneurship and business that you have to embrace it.
[00:26:58] Speaker C: You have to. Yeah. And that, that's the thing. You roll with it, don't resist it at the end of the day. Right. And so as AI comes, right, we welcome it with open arms. All the other key things coming, welcome it with open arms. What do you say if you were to meet an entrepreneur tomorrow and he or she is just like ultra nervous about starting a business, right? And you say, just embrace it all. And then he or she looks at you and says, but how, DJ? Like, how do I embrace it all? I'm freaking out here. How do you respond?
[00:27:28] Speaker A: You gotta take charge of your own destiny, and you gotta take charge of your own financial security. And if you're that nervous and that scared, I always ask people, do you like roller coasters? Most people say, no, I actually hate them. But being an entrepreneur is like a roller coaster, right? You have those ups and downs. So I always say, somebody who's really ultra nervous and unsure, I always say, listen, stay in your job where you are today, but start the side hustle. Do 2 hours a week, see how it goes. Do 3 hours a week, then 4 hours, and build up to the point where you feel safe enough that you're earning as much as your income is with your day job, so to speak, or your regular job where you can then pivot and move away from it and feel that sense of security that you're going to get paid and you're going to be okay. But keep in mind, entrepreneurship's like a roller coaster. You're going to have highs, you're going to have lows, but it's the consistency and the dedication, the discipline to what you're doing, that will give you the ultimate outcome that you want.
[00:28:33] Speaker C: That's good. Good advice. And starting small, I think, is always the best way to do it. Take the small bites, move along, and then take bigger bites as you get more comfortable. Man, that is gold for any entrepreneur out there. And we are so thankful that you came here to drop knowledge today. I did want to give you one more question. All right. It's my curveball at the end. I gotta know just to understand PJ a little better. What was your favorite jam, your favorite song, growing up? Tell everybody, what would you want to tune on.
[00:29:02] Speaker A: Right now, I have a broad genre of, like. I like a very broad genre. So I'm gonna give you two, if I may. I'm gonna give you California love by Tupac. What?
[00:29:15] Speaker C: Love that, Jamie. Love that jam.
[00:29:17] Speaker A: Then I'm also going to give you smooth by Santana and Rob Thomas.
[00:29:21] Speaker C: Oh, very nice. Very nice. Very opposite sides of the spectrum there, right?
But in the end, both classic jams and probably appeal to different sides of you, PJ. So now we know a little bit more about you that meets the eye, no? So, thank you so much for coming in here and just giving us your all. And one question for you I'd love to see, would you be willing to come back in the future, give us an update on all the great stuff you're up to?
[00:29:44] Speaker A: It would be an honor, sir. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.
[00:29:48] Speaker C: Terrific. That's Paul, PJ Jackson, everyone. And team. Listen, do not let these lessons fly by. Please apply them next Monday to your business so that way you can grow, you can continue to achieve your goals as an entrepreneur. Whether you are running a SaaS company or something else, these lessons I think you can take to heart. All right, so for everyone listening out there, remember, stop guessing and start growing.
[00:30:14] Speaker B: Until next time, thank you and much love for listening to the street pricing podcast with Marcos Rivera. We hope you enjoyed this episode, and don't forget to like and subscribe. If you want to learn more about capturing value, pick up a copy of street pricing on Amazon. Until next time.
