Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Workshop after workshop, we agreed on some things, but nothing went anywhere. No one owned it, truly, because so many people owned the different elements of the concept that it just like many things, fell apart.
[00:00:14] Speaker B: Yo, Mike check. What's up, everybody? You're listening to the street pricing podcast, the only show where proven SaaS leaders share their mindset and mistakes and pricing so we can all stop guessing and start growing. Enjoy. Subscribe, and tell a friend. Now, let's break it down, down with your host and sought after Slayer of bad pricing, Marcos Rivera.
[00:00:37] Speaker C: What's up? And welcome to the Street Pricing podcast. I'm Marcos Rivera, author, founder and pricing coach. Today's guest is nothing short of a certified pricing ninja. Absolute certified. I'm super excited to have her today. Katie way, welcome to the show.
[00:00:54] Speaker A: Thank you for welcoming. I'm super excited to be on your show. You are amazing. And having worked with you professionally, I know that to be true. So I'm just excited to be here.
[00:01:06] Speaker C: So I am excited to have you. People are not aware of what they're about to hear, the knowledge you're about to drop. You are currently director of pricing strategy at Cloudinary, and just take a quick second to tell everyone about you and what you do.
[00:01:19] Speaker A: So right now, I'm director of pricing strategy, cloudinary, but I've spent my entire career, so I started in time, college, working full time for an accounting firm that also sold software, open source software and CPE courses for cpas. And I said, hey, I think a better use of my time would be to take over the sales and marketing and execution of these side hustles that you've got going on. And so I did that. And so I priced them, I sold them. Sometimes I delivered those courses. And so it brought me, really, from, I was 20 years old, from learning at college to, oh, I'm doing the work. And then, long story short, I found I loved pricing. I loved pricing. And I did a little short sit in sales. And my favorite thing was the pricing. Objection. I knew I had them when I got that. And so I moved quickly into sales management training and then the pricing role again, because that's my passion, and that's where it shines through. So I've been a pricing professional. Even when I dabbled in sales, I was very much a pricing professional, just wearing a different costume at that time. So it's been my, the past 22 years of my career. I found pricing. I love pricing. And it's been something that has driven my career for 20 plus years now.
[00:02:56] Speaker C: That is amazing. And the thing is, to do something for a couple of decades, you gotta freaking like it, right? You gotta enjoy it. It's gotta be something that you don't mind thinking about for hours on end. So that's. That's why I come up with this pricing ninja. I actually think that you are a masterful, thoughtful pricing leader. Cause I've seen you in action. I actually seen some of the things you've done. And so we're going to be able to break this down today. As a matter of fact, you know, I'm not the only one that thinks you have fantastic pricing chops. You're going to be speaking soon, right? I'm going to embarrass you for a second. Why don't you tell. Tell us a little bit about what's coming up. You're about to take the stage, right?
[00:03:31] Speaker A: Yeah. So there's a society called the professional pricing society where a lot of us are looking for. There's conferences a few times a year, and the network is amazing. Cause it's all people just like minded who are passionate about pricing that show up. And I was asked to be a keynote speaker for this upcoming conference in Chicago in the end of April. So I'm going to talk about, as a keynote speaker, what do you do to elevate a pricing team to be a strategic initiative, not just an afterthought, not just, oh, we're done. Here's figure out the pricing. We want pricing from the full lifecycle, right from product ideation to sunset. So I'm excited to speak about the strategic part of pricing. And if you're stuck in an organization that just doesn't realize its value and thinks of you as more of administrative, or we're going to talk about how do we change that and become a strategic center of excellence.
[00:04:33] Speaker C: I love it, by the way, the timing couldn't be better with everyone paying a lot more attention to pricing. And are we even doing it right? Should we start it? And so I'm excited for you to take the stage, you know, shine up there like you should and really let everyone know how this actually works, like in real life. Right? So you know what? I'd love to get into some of that, too, as we get into some of the parts of the show. So real quick roadmap for everyone. Are you ready to get street with me, by the way? Yeah. You ready to do it? Okay, so the way the show was structured is by the book street pricing, right? So we're gonna go rewind, and we're going to look at what happened in a real pricing story. Tell me. A struggle, a success, both, whatever it is. And that way we can all learn about how this is really done in real life. Right?
[00:05:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:19] Speaker C: We'll come back to play, which is what's working nowadays. What are you really seeing as a great way to monetize, to capture value or even think about it. Then we'll go into fast forward to the future. So what's next? Right?
Where is it going? What's going to happen? Give us a bold prediction, and then we'll have a lot of fun with my favorite question at the end, which I'll lay on you, and then we'll take it from there. Does that sound good?
[00:05:40] Speaker A: Sounds great.
[00:05:41] Speaker C: Okay, well, then why don't we start off with a pricing story and let's unpack a success or a struggle.
[00:05:48] Speaker A: Okay. So I talked about how do you elevate your pricing team as a strategic center of excellence? And so the first time I really successfully did this was back at a manufacturing firm where the issue was how do we make sure our. So we sell industrial equipment. I'll back up a second to people like system integrators or oems that put it on a table, that make it work. They sell it to the end user, the person who's going to use it. So it's like the car company that's going to use it was plasma cutting. So the car company that's going to use plasma cutting, Tesla, for example, use products to make this happen. How do we make sure that all of those end customers receive the same high level experience that everyone. We wanted a consistency and experience that end users got from all of our different system sis and our oems. So this was the problem, right, that the company was facing. Pricing wasn't necessarily at the forefront, but I saw the problem. We were involved in some of the workshops, which was lucky, because I had presented pricing could be a solution to this. So we got our name invited into the talks for pricing. And workshop after workshop, we agreed on some things, but nothing went anywhere. No one owned it, truly, because so many people owned the different elements of the concept that it just, like many things, fell apart. So I said to myself, look, this is a silly phrase. I talk about it. Write your own story. If I want to write my own story and say, what is it that I did to make this successful, what would it be that I did? And so I pulled the teams together. I said, okay, here's a racy, here's who's responsible for what we can talk about that and adjust it. In this meeting here, here's everything that needs to get done, high level milestones and dates, and who is responsible for that? And I just kind of took control because I, I saw that there were many leaders trying to move the needle on this and it was just getting a lot of stakeholders together and lots of disagreements. So what I did was I came in with, here's who makes decisions, here's who contributes to them, here's how we're going to do it, and we're going to meet once a week and we're going to make this happen. And pricing did it. So we came up with a structure that would incentivize our global partners to do the things we wanted to create that end user experience.
But it took, you know, it was a, it was a problem of, we want end users to have the same experience. And you may not necessarily think, well, then pricing has to be the person running the show.
[00:08:41] Speaker C: No, you wouldn't think that.
[00:08:43] Speaker A: You wouldn't think that. But when you see a big business problem and you know you can do something to contribute to it, and you see a lot of dysfunction around making progress, what I talk about is being an impact player and saying, I know I can add value to this problem, and then essentially doing that. So that's why that first meeting was, we want to fix this. This is the racy we think is going to be necessary to fix it. Here are the solutions, here are the timelines, here's how it's going to get done, and all of those high level stakeholders, then we're like, this is amazing. This is, this is, I think someone said, this is really inspirational. I think we can actually do this. Like, it took us feeling like, oh, it's too not sure we're going to get there to concrete actions and we're going to accomplish this and it will be successful because we've built into the plan reiterations on design that we're not going to be perfect the first time, and that is built into the plan. And so that was maybe one of the first times this industrial company I worked for where I felt like we were making a strategic difference, where we were running a problem that was important to the company, important to the CEO, important to everyone. And that pricing, while it was just one element of the problem, allowed us to run the solution work, the brainstorming and the reiteration work necessary to nail it. And we did. And so we may not have been the first person anyone thought of to run this. Well, when I saw there was a. A gap and that no one was really taking control and no one was really finding success. I said, I'm going to go for it and try to take control and try to bring this to success. And I think that's an important part of learning for a pricing professional. So many of our company problems can be at least partially solved by pricing. And just because they can't be fully solved by pricing doesn't mean you can't take that initiative and run with it to provide value for the entire organization. So it's seeing where are those gaps that no one has that unique view, because the unique view of pricing is we see all the stakeholders, we see all the gaps, we see all the alignments, we see what needs to be done, how it has to be changed because of the unique set like seat that we sit at. So I think writing your own story to me was becoming that strategic influencer that fixed this problem. And I think every company has a problem that pricing can jump in and say, you know, be the hero, but it does, it does require a lot of cross collaboration, you know, different stakeholders and being able to manage that. But at the end of the day, we solve the problem with behavioral incentives for rebates, a few other things, and added a ton of value. And then we were a part of conversations that we weren't before.
[00:11:45] Speaker C: That's exactly the flip of the game you just talked about, right? So, you know, I was not lying when I said you're passionate about pricing, okay? I could see it coming out of your pores as you're talking about it, right? So here's, here's the nice thing about this, because pricing is oftentimes that afterthought, right? Oh, crap, we have to price this thing. Like, what are we going to come up with? And it comes on the very end. You're flipping and saying, no, no, no, we can actually, we can actually spearhead something. Now, the nice thing about good pricing functions is that they do tend to touch, most of them tend to touch all the different functional areas. So what you said about everyone just kind of watching their own little area or fiefdom and not really paying attention to the full, like what's happening when you connect the dots or how do you even connect the dots? So you use something called a racy. Not everybody even knows what a raci is, right? The responsible, accountable consultant informed. It's just as, it's just a really clean structure on who owns what. So that way folks, folks don't step on their toes and that way they know that who's responsible for which area, and then it allows for people to understand their roles and understand kind of how things get done. Is that how you did it? Because it's really just sitting down and mapping out, like, all those responsibilities, but you gotta get somebody to say, yeah, that makes sense. How did you get them to say, yeah, this makes sense?
[00:13:00] Speaker A: No, that's a really good question. So I took the top, the most senior leaders involved in the project, and I brought them together and I said, I have a solution I want to present to you and we can workshop it. And this may not. Everything I'm about to present is a. Is a start, but let's workshop this and find consensus together so that we can solve this problem. I just want to give us a starting point. And so we started, we had the race day. I go, here's. Here's what I propose. I am open to change. Let's talk about it. And luck would have. They'd be like, no, that looks perfect.
[00:13:36] Speaker C: And you work your way down. So you start with the senior leader. You stayed open. You're like, hey, I'm opening your feedback. Nope, I'm good. And then just keep working. I'm good, I'm good, I'm good.
[00:13:47] Speaker A: Do we agree? Okay, we don't agree. Let's fix it. Okay. Now we have our go forth. Racy.
We've agreed on things that need to be accomplished. We've agreed on the goals that need to be achieved, and this was truly your opportunity. Is the vacuum where there's a problem and there's a vacuum of solutions. I like that. That's where you are looking to find those, because those are your moments to rise strategically, because almost everything is impacted by pricing and almost everything can be optimized for pricing, right? And so looking at the business, like, what is. What does the CEO want to solve? What are those biggest problems the organization is facing? And how does pricing, how could that play into helping solve the issues? That's the vacuum I want people to look for, because a lot of times people are not thinking pricing is the solution. And oftentimes, pricing, okay, you have bad retention pricing, okay, you have, you know, dollar retention pricing, okay, you have bad win rates. Price like so much. It's all pricing, right? All the metrics you look at, pricing is a possible solution for all of them. And to work effectively in a team, you need some kind of racy one that's a complicated cross company solution. So you want to know who's in charge of what, but who's responsible who's, you know, all of that. And I think that finding your senior leadership team and presenting to them that you can do more than math is so important because a lot of times I think, oh, they're the math, or like, they do the detail stuff. No, no, we are the most strategic team there is in a company because my philosophy is pricing is the execution of strategy. Because when we've done m and a and I acquire a company, they'll say, this is our pricing strategy. I'll look at their data. That is almost never their pricing strategy. And I'll say, this is your pricing strategy. Therefore, this is your commercial strategy, your go to market strategy. So a lot of people think their go to market commercial strategy is one thing. Then when you get under the hood of what's actually happening with all the exceptions and pricing, you see what their actual strategy is.
[00:16:11] Speaker C: You know what you say, that is a pro thing. So two, one, I want to crystallize that quote, right. Your opportunity is in the vacuum for everyone listening here who's like, how do I get some moments momentum here with pricing or get some momentum with, you know, executing our strategy? Your opportunities in the vacuum. I love that. Secondly, when it comes to really revealing the true strategy, you look at the pricing model, you really see what's going on. So for a very simple example, we are a premium product, head and shoulders above the rest. We are the best. And you look and you're discounting 65% on average. It doesn't quite meld. When you look at the price of what's really happening versus what they say they are strategically, that's often a disconnect that is really worthwhile sinking your teeth into.
I'm with you 1000% here, but let me take it forward because there is a lot of goodness in what you said, because there's, I think, others that want to be more thoughtful on their pricing model and how they monetize and how they capture value. But again, the folks around them just really are very narrow or slice of what's happening. And it gets, it really hard to corral. If you had to think about someone or time that it didn't work, just go back and think about, all right, I can never get this person on board, or I just really couldn't get headway what happened. And maybe, heck, maybe it ever worked out, which is okay, right? That's life, but what would you have done differently? So is there something where you're just like, eh, it worked at the manufacturing company, but here was where it didn't and here's what I wish I would.
[00:17:43] Speaker A: Yeah. So I worked for a SaaS company where I wanted a good, better best. You also were a consultant of ours and wanted a good, better best structure, but it just didn't work. The executive team, the founders met, they liked something they saw on another pricing website and then that was what we were going with. So what I did is I tried to network and say, meet with all the insider players to say, this is why I'm suggesting a slightly different. I love the idea. I think it works really well for this company you've copied it off of. Here's why. I don't think it's our best interest. And I campaigned politically to like each of the internal stakeholders. But at the end of the day, in some companies, a founder's idea is going to hold more weight than anything else. And so what you have to do is say, okay, I'll support and try to make this successful to the best of my ability. But keep in mind your former idea, your say in this case our good better best. And now that company is, has implemented good better best in the following year and it is working out fantastically.
[00:18:58] Speaker C: But no, I told you SOS, right? You don't want to walk around saying that.
[00:19:02] Speaker A: No, I told you so. But if you can't, if you don't succeed at first, keep it up. If it's based in evidence and fact and theory that we know from pricing professionals what works and what doesn't, we know we're going to get there and they just need to experience something they believe will work. They just need to see that it doesn't. And then you pivot really fast. And that's what I like about SAS is we can pivot really fast.
[00:19:28] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:19:29] Speaker A: It doesn't have to be two or three years of that cycle. We can two months later change it.
[00:19:35] Speaker C: Awesome. You know, this is something. I'm so happy you brought that up because I think there are people out there who maybe wish upper management or senior management or the founder would listen to their approach or idea or like, I think it's going to work if we did this, make this a bundle or change the price on that, or do whatever, and maybe there's a different idea at the top that is not the same. And things don't just, they get frustrated. I'm like, how come no one listens? They're all idiots. Right? But the thing is, I think what you did is the right move. So you said, look, fine, I don't see it. You can point out the areas that you think are the strengths or weaknesses or whatever the approach is. But ultimately, you're not really going to get a lot of headway in your idea unless you empty the cup. And this is something I learned from a professor a while ago. I use it with, with anything, pricing, but even just, you know, talking to my friends, my wife, doesn't matter is that you have to empty the cup before you fill the cup. And what I mean by that is let the idea out. Let them try it, let them say it, let them do it, whatever it is, and let the cup empty. And then you have space to then fill it with your idea. All right? And it could, it works in a lot of, it even works to avoid arguments. There's a lot of, you know, think theory behind it, but the idea is the human mind. It's hard for them to absorb a new idea when there's just one that's dominating and taking it over. So you got to find ways to get it out of the way. And so as you eased and approached it, keep your idea there, though. Don't give up on it. Just let it hang out there in the cut. Just let it hang out. And then when the opening comes in, then you slide it in and you see the success. Right. I think that's that. Patience is really hard for people. So huge lessons learned all across the board from you on those stories. And again, everybody who's in that early stages or mid stages of starting, how do you approach pricing more effectively? Take these lessons to heart. But I did want to bring us now to the present from rewind to play. I want to understand what's really working out well today in your pricing techniques. Right now, you see something that you're doing that is like, yeah, we really love this, and here's why.
[00:21:38] Speaker A: Well, I'll say so now I'm at cloudinarium four months in. But what works out really well is we are transforming our value drivers to those that resonate with our customers. For an example, we used to one of the, we are a hybrid, where there's a platform fee and then there's usage fee, and one of the usage fees was bandwidth. So we're an image. So if you think of cloudinary, what we do is we are the media layer of the Internet. So if you go to Nike.com, comma, if you go to neimanmarkets.com, comma, they're using cloudinary images. No matter what device you are, what location you are, is going to load really fast based on our technology.
That said, that's the delivery piece we found. Okay, yes, bandwidth was a metric. You were charged on how much bandwidth you delivered, but that's not really the value that the customer gets, right? They're getting value when customers convert and become sales. They're getting value when those visits become revenue. So we've changed bandwidth, which is kind of commodified to image requests, image impressions, so the number of people seeing your images that directly correlates with your conversion rate. So we want this outcome based pricing driver versus just a kind of input based driving. So that's going really well. We're overhauling our usage metrics so that they align with the value of the customer and not just the cost of cloudinary.
[00:23:23] Speaker C: Oh, I love that. So this is moving from the inputs to the outcome, which I've been hearing a lot about this. We're maybe touch on this a little bit more later, but the natural thing that you see is the input. So that's the tendency to want to charge for that. People understand it too, right. But ultimately it starts to break down in a few ways. Right. I think you're, and I'd love to hear from you what you saw, but sometimes it's not as close to value, so you'll get some weird behavior around the inputs or tracking the inputs, or just the sort of degrading willingness to pay around the inputs over time. So I wanted to hear, where did you see it falling apart before you switched it up?
[00:24:01] Speaker A: So it was falling apart, I think a little bit before my time, because I am only new. What we were seeing is bandwidth was something that we helped customers optimize. We helped them reduce the amount of bandwidth that they were bringing through. Now, one bandwidth was just the amount of bandwidth they used to deliver their images to their e commerce shops or whatever it might be. And because of the innovation in our software, we were reducing the amount of bandwidth they needed to deliver optimized images. So we found that the more successful and more someone implemented our product, the less that they would pay to do so. And that was kind of inverse with the value metric of they're getting more value, but they're paying less. And we love that for them. We do. But what we want to make sure is that they're feeling the value is appropriate for their outcome, as you mentioned, and the outcome being how many people are seeing these images? Because the more eyeballs you have on the images, the more conversions you're going to get. Of course, it depends on the media, but many of our customers are very savvy here with that. And so when we move to impressions, and that's been a new thing, the number of impressions you make directly correlate with the conversion and the number of new customers and number of, in the amount of revenue that you've earned because of that. And so that's why it's a little more outcome based. And we've so far not run into any landmines there. We've found a lot, as people have learned to understand it, a lot of success. And I think the number one learning for us here is just for new customers. How do we get the data? We need to calculate how many impressions they're getting today versus how many impressions they'll get in the future. And that's a little thing we'll overcome.
[00:26:03] Speaker C: Yes. And that's going to be the key there because anything that makes people feel squeamish or, I don't know, I don't understand. It's okay to introduce something new, but if there's a familiar element to it, it's so much more effective. Right, people, I get it. Cool. I love that because that does really align things well. And I think some of the most beautiful models are where that value alignment is there. You get more, we get more, and you just kind of move on in a happy way. Right?
[00:26:27] Speaker A: Yeah. We did survey customers first to say, does this make sense to you? Would you feel this is better aligned with the value you get from cloudinary? And it was an overwhelming yes. So we didn't just make this change without talking to customers, without interviewing them and talking about what this change would mean for them and getting their feedback. So it was well validated with pricing research, as you'd expect.
[00:26:52] Speaker C: I would expect that from a pro like you. So that's when you talk to them first. You got that input and that's where it gave you a little more confidence to go out there. There's still always some adjusting and refinement, always in anything. But you were able to get that confident response up front.
[00:27:07] Speaker A: You got to talk to the customer. You can't make a wholesale change without saying, does this make sense to you, mister misses customer, what are your thoughts on this and the value interview? The qualitative interview is, I think, underrated. I think it's underrated.
[00:27:23] Speaker C: I would have to agree. I mean, you know what, I gotta ask you this question because you brought up a really interesting point about the interview. The value interview is there, in that interview context, a favorite question of yours? Like, is there's like, oh, this is our non negotiable. We got to ask the customer this question, is there something in there just for everybody?
[00:27:40] Speaker A: There's a number of questions, and it comes from my sales days.
[00:27:44] Speaker C: Oh, okay.
[00:27:45] Speaker A: Thinking of one of the great customer interviews I had recently at my former company, I said, okay, what decisions did you make differently because of this? And they answered, I da da da da da. And I said, okay, so what? When we look at monetization, what did that mean for your organization in terms of money? And he talked about, you know, it was a hospitality tech. And he said, okay, yeah, this new reporting has been a game changer. I said, okay, because I can't quantify game changer. What decisions have you made? Write them down. Okay. Decision one, what would have happened if you didn't have this data? What would you have done differently and what would have been your pricing action as a result? And we came to at the end, and it's really just being able to drill down and say, and so what then? And we drill down to, he had like $130,000 of revenue he wouldn't have made if this new reporting view wasn't available. He wouldn't have had the data to be able to do what he did to make $130,000, which to him was super significant.
So it's really just trying to get people, we call it dollarization in sales, and it's so important in the value interview to say, what decisions would you make differently if this didn't exist? And can you tell me what decision that would have been based on your prior technology?
What would you have done differently? And then taking the difference between the two to really monetize your solution versus what the alternative was, that is amazing.
[00:29:28] Speaker C: Because if you ask someone, so how much you want to pay on this thing or what is this worth to you? Really hard for people to answer that question. Right. And this is also why I love interviews more than surveys in many cases, because you can dig a little more. Like, really? Why? So tell me more. Dig a little deeper. Right. And in that example, I think that's a really nice way to frame it, is what decisions, how are you thinking differently? What decisions you have made and then sort of subtract it and say, well, what would you have done without this, right. And just kind of help people because people can really do a compare contrast, but it's hard for them to, to extrapolate it on their own.
[00:30:01] Speaker A: So that is, you walk them through it. You walk through with it, because they're not going to know off the bat they're not thinking that way. You got to walk them through the dollarization calculation step by step.
[00:30:12] Speaker C: I love it. The dollarization calculation, that is a big step. And it's actually not just a pricing thing. It's actually sales, kind of a sales technique.
[00:30:21] Speaker A: And I think, yeah, it goes into our sales enablement. It goes into everything. I mean, it's a huge find. It's a huge win from a pricing professional.
[00:30:31] Speaker C: So smart. So smart. All right, so let's keep on what is next future of pricing, right. You. And I'm really riffing on this notion of moving from input to output or outcomes. I think that's where things are going now that we're getting smarter and can measure them a lot better. What do you think? Do you in that camp or do you have a different point of view?
[00:30:48] Speaker A: I think it's outcome based. Is the future of pricing? I think it's going to be more abstract than one to one outcomes like we're talking about. Okay. Impressions. The more impressions you get, the more people that see your videos or photos in this case, the more likely you are to get conversions to sale. So I think it's outcomes, but I don't think it's direct outcomes yet. I think we're on a journey where we're getting to the outcome based driver, but it's. It's not one to one. So I know that you're going, you know, if you're seeing this many images, you're going to get hopefully more conversions. And that's an outcome based. But I'm not yet pricing on conversions. And I think that's the true outcome. And I think that's probably a few years ahead in our future.
[00:31:41] Speaker C: Yeah. So we're kind of just inching towards that. We're not quite there.
[00:31:45] Speaker A: I think it's a data problem. I think we need the data to really feel comfortable pricing that way because it's so variable across clients and it can be. I think we need more data to feel confident that we can price based on your outcome because the outcomes do vary. Right. So I think we just need better data structures so that we have confidence to do that.
[00:32:08] Speaker C: Yeah, that's a really smart point. And I think the more we can see in the data and the more we can get, then that kind of paves the way for the outcome. I see your point. Very, very smart. You know what? I would love to say this, that as outcomes pricing begins to become a reality, it is not going to happen tomorrow. And that's where I think we need to let this play out. Let AI play out. Let all these new areas that we're exploring and expanding play out. And I think it'll start to. It'll start to surface. So I'm going to say maybe two years ish.
[00:32:40] Speaker A: Yeah. No, I think the acceleration of AI and helping us with this could be. Could mean two years, which is crazy, because you think in normal times, AI, AI less times, we'd be five to ten years from that. But now we're probably two years, because AI is going to help a lot.
[00:32:57] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. Yeah. We're just getting started, I think. And I'll tell you this, I'm just getting started with you. We could talk all day about pricing, I think, me and you, but you have dropped some very, very precious knowledge bombs today, so thank you for bringing that in. And I also want to make sure that I get my last question in before we wrap up, which is, what is your favorite jam of all time? Doesn't have to be hip hop, but bonus points if it is. Do you have a big one that comes to mind?
[00:33:23] Speaker A: That's a hard one, I would say, because it's so. I changed with the times. I'm very much on new music, and I feel like you get old when you stop listening to new music. Even though the new music at first sounds like this is not my style, I think you got to force yourself to keep always listening to new music. I think it keeps you young. So I'm always listening to new music. I'm always on a different kind of, you know, into it, into a different thing. But I think still, the greatest jam of all time might be. Might be something. Tom Petty.
[00:33:56] Speaker C: Ooh, you're going classic on me.
[00:33:58] Speaker A: I'm going classic. I endless. I love hip hop, but, yeah, Tom, like, when it. When shit hits the fan, I go to Tom Petty and I just listened to, you know, his greatest hits. It just brings me back down to earth to. Okay. Perspective. Right?
[00:34:16] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:34:16] Speaker A: What matters, what doesn't. And it just. It's just a different time where I didn't have to worry about so many things that, you know, it was my childhood, so I love Tom Petty for that.
[00:34:27] Speaker C: Well, music invokes a lot of emotion, and Tom Petty, to me, is timeless, and so, yes, that's where you go. That is. I love it. I love it nonetheless. So, thank you for jumping in here today. I want to invite you back in the future. I could bet you anything in six months from now, you'll have a whole nother set of things and perspectives to share, because things move a lot quickly.
[00:34:47] Speaker A: Right?
[00:34:48] Speaker C: So thank you again for joining the show today. And one big thing, if you want, if you're in Chicago, what was the end of April, right? And you're a part of PPS, check out Katie's talk. I think I'm really rooting for you. I think it's going to be amazing. Can't wait for you to take that stage and team everybody listening. Thank you for joining today. Take these lessons and apply them. Go next Monday and see if you can start up a revolution from your pricing seed or be able to relook at. Is there an input that we're charging for that maybe really should be closer to the output? Think about those key things and continue to take your journey away from that guesswork so you can stop guessing and start growing.
[00:35:28] Speaker B: Thank you and much love for listening to the street pricing podcast with Marcos Rivera. We hope you enjoyed this episode episode and don't forget to like and subscribe. If you want to learn more about capturing value, pick up a copy of street pricing on Amazon. Until next time.
