Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: That 10 bucks, easy, low friction, low entry, you don't have to think about it that much. Get in there. But again, you were mostly on that transactional revenue basis. It's kind of a pay as you go in a way, right?
[00:00:11] Speaker B: You know, you have businesses that have built products and software to solve an app to solve a problem, right? And the way in which they're solving that problem is all these things that you have to do to get it set up, configured, complete, you know, all the things in between. Then AI comes in and says, that's really cute.
You can get that done in one click.
[00:00:29] Speaker A: What is the number one triumph and the number one trap? So the number one triumph meaning, shit, I'm really glad we did that back then. That was a big move for us. And then the number one trap was, oh, I wish we didn't do that.
[00:00:41] Speaker B: And so as the business has matured, it really has illuminated who are the core customers, right? What types of businesses, what use cases. I think above anything, that's probably the most important.
[00:00:55] Speaker C: Yo, Mic check. What's up everybody? You're listening to the Street Pricing podcast, the only show where proven SaaS leaders share their mindset and mistakes in pricing. So we can all stop guessing and start growing. Enjoy, subscribe and tell a friend. Now let's break it down with your host and sought after slayer of bad pricing, Marcos Rivera.
[00:01:17] Speaker A: What's up and welcome to the Street Pricing podcast. I'm Marcos Rivera, CEO of Pricing IO and today's guest is a master of messaging, right? You're going to love him. His name is Chris Bresson. He is the CEO and co founder of Sales Message. Chris, welcome to the show, man.
[00:01:32] Speaker B: Marco, it's good to see you again, my friend. I'm excited.
[00:01:35] Speaker A: We met years ago. I don't remember when we met.
[00:01:38] Speaker B: I was at Martell's event.
[00:01:40] Speaker A: Dan Martell's event, man. Big shout out to Dan. You know all the great stuff there at SAS Academy for the audience today. Chris, give him just a quick short about you and what you do.
[00:01:49] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So, Chris Bresson. I live in Delray Beach, Florida. I've been entrepreneur my whole life, mainly all types of different businesses, but been in SaaS for gosh over 15 plus years. So co founder, CEO of Sales Message. So we're a platform focused on SMS and calling and so we help companies, you know, engage with leads, convert leads and drive more business right through conversational SMS through SMS marketing, you know, integrated into all the main tools. HubSpot, Salesforce.
[00:02:24] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. Just helping them convert and make more money. Right at the end of the day, that's it.
[00:02:28] Speaker B: Which is key.
[00:02:28] Speaker A: We're going to unpack that a lot today. But what we're going to go into now is break down some of the pricing, packaging, learnings, growth, all that good stuff. So you ready to go and get street with me?
[00:02:38] Speaker B: Let's do it. Let's go.
[00:02:40] Speaker A: Let's do it. Really quick roadmap for everybody listening here. This show is based on the book Street Pricing. So what we're going to do is break it down into three sections. The first one is all about rewind, which is let's get a story, a chapter from Chris's past. Let's talk about either pricing, packaging, growth, how he overcame that, what he learned. And then we're going to move into play. Play is what's working today. What are some key things that he's changed, that he's seeing a lot of good benefit. And then let's look into the future. Fast forward, what's next? Where is he going? All these things that are changing around him. How's he thinking about changing how he monetizes or how he captures new business? So with all that, Chris, take us in to your story.
[00:03:18] Speaker B: Yeah. So.
Well, I mean, so many places to start, but I, I got started young, right? So I started a company. I sold rims and tires on ebay when I was 19. It's a whole accidental story how I got into it, but I sort of fell in love with like building businesses, entrepreneurship, and so I ended up selling that company. So. So I had a warehouse I was selling all across the country, packaging, shipping. This is early 2002, 2005 and. But I just loved it. I loved the process of like just building something, creating a business. I was doing all the work and so I sold that and I vowed never again to go into selling physical stuff. So went into the world of marketing, of. Of sales, learned Z. Zig Ziglar and Dan Kennedy and just the whole world of copywriting. Yeah. And so, you know, Ogilvy, I mean, John Caples, like all the copywriting experts, and so went down that world, did consulting, did product launches, you know, did all sorts of fun stuff and ultimately landed really in the software world. So started a company in 2010, 2009, called Call Loop. That platform still exists today, that focuses really on the SMS marketing side of things.
Even though calling was the original sort of idea, it's really an E commerce sort of SMS marketing platform. But in 2015, we ended up spinning out Sales message with the whole sort of vision. Actually, 2017 spun it out with the whole vision of a conversational messaging platform to engage, you know, connect, convert, and really care for the customer. And so today, it's become a more robust platform than just conversational texting. But now it's a more all in one communication platform. And in the beginning, you know, from a pricing perspective, it was 10 bucks a month. And you know how we launched it?
Super simple, you know, $10 a month. And then over time, we went from 10 bucks a month per seat, and then we moved over to $35 or $350.
And what's interesting is through all these pricing shifts, and I'm sure, you know, Marcus, but it just. Boop. You know, pops up in revenue. Boop. Pops up in growth. And so we've gone through a couple of different pricing changes over the years, one of which, you know, we talked about this probably a year ago or so, but. Yeah, so it's been a fun, fun journey into. Into just building companies, building software companies.
[00:05:49] Speaker A: It does. But you make it sound so damn easy, Chris. You make it sound easy, man. You sit there with your big smile, with your, like, Patrick Swayze good looks. Okay. And all that. You probably surf really well, Right?
My point here is, though, every time you decided to change price, you were probably. You probably put some thought into it, maybe even a little nervous about it, maybe unsure. I want to know the 10 bucks a month thing is probably that safe. Like, all right, you know what? People are probably going to pay this. And then when you shift it to the seat, when you shift it to the others, I bet you your average deal size and your average unit sold is so much higher than it was back then. You probably built a ton more value since that point. Right? But I want to talk about an inflection point where you're like, all right, we got to change this thing, because it's not working. We're leaving money on the table, or we've just flat out outgrown this model, and we need to now push it ahead. Give me one of those points, man. I know you. You always look at your pricing. You're always making sure that you're. You're not leaving money on the table. Give me a story about that inflection.
[00:06:49] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, for us, it was. I just wanted to get it out to the world at a price point that was like, just enough so people could say, yes, give it a go. And it was this sort of seat model. So the idea was, hey, let's It's a seat model. And then we'll have just add on a credit model, a usage model on top. So you can imagine, you know, usage could be infinite, right? Transaction revenue. But then the seat model of a subscription, there really was no SaaS. So it was like 95%, you know, or 90% transaction revenue and then 10%. And so it's just like, man, we need to move to a SaaS model. So I learned a ton.
So call loop, it was a credit based system. And so that was, you know, at 80, 20 transaction in 20% subscription. And so I actually went to go and sell that company and we were about 30 days in due diligence. And the biggest problem with that acquisition or going through that sale process was they're like, your model doesn't work for us, the unit economics, we don't know. Like it's so unpredictable and volatile that we can't layer on a model that makes sense for us to invest and grow this business without a lot of change and shift. And so that was a big moment where I was like, whoa, okay, I can't ever move, you know, and focus on a transaction business just because the SaaS economics don't work. And so the intention for sales message was it needs to be a flip of 80% subscription, 20% transaction. And so that was that intention. So that inflection point going from 10 bucks a month, and this is very early on, I think maybe within the first year we moved to $35 a month or 350. So it's a super simple plan. The product was you get access to everything and just driving that, that usage. And so, you know, very quickly we were going from 5,000amonth to 10 to 20 to 20 to 30. And so it was going to growing in clips. But as soon as we unlocked that from 10 to 30, it was just immediate growth, you know, where at 10 bucks a month, you know, it wasn't really expanding even though there was the transaction side. So and then that was it. So we had that plan for probably a good two years, give or take.
[00:09:02] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:09:02] Speaker B: And then we moved into more of a credit based model. So, you know, in our space, depending on, we certainly have talked about this, but there are seat models, right? And then there's the credit model which is sort of more of a marketing use case, like volume based. Hey, here's my volume versus hey, it's seats. And so, you know, typically in calling platforms you'll see that sort of seat based model. But yeah, for us, I mean it just, it was the night and day difference. And every time we sort of switched that model, you know, transaction revenue went down and it just got moved over to a subscription.
So and now it's a more stable company in the sense that, you know, subscription is going up and transactions. So everything we're trying to do is push more into the subscription model just from a predictability standpoint.
[00:09:50] Speaker A: Yeah, that makes total sense here. And for those listening, all you SaaS operators, all you leaders and founders out there, if you want SaaS multiples, you got to have SaaS unit economics. It just, there's no escaping it. Right. And I think that, you know, having there is a little more, I think, warmth and receptiveness to transactional revenue, but typically is, you know, there's a history, there's some predictability around it, maybe seasonality, maybe a nice growth trend that you can, you know, point to and poke at with a stick. But nothing beats recurring revenue that's predictable and locked in. I don't give, I don't care what you say. Right. But when you start shifting the model, people wonder, well, why'd you change your pricing? To capture more value. Sure. But sometimes you change pricing to get the right economics, to get the right revenue. Mix the right profile, the right quality of revenue. Folks forget about that. Right? And so a lot of times your model and the way you charge influences your quality of revenue and overall profile, which influences your economics, which influences your multiple. So the SaaS game isn't about that number on the page. It actually can change the value of your whole business. Right. If you do it and you pull it off. Right. And so my big question for you, as you, as you did this, you saw the shift in sort of the mix of revenue moving from transactional to subscription.
I want to understand behavior and usage. Did you think by switching to that 10 to $30 or $35, which is like freaking tripling it, by the way, which is amazing.
Did you see folks maybe use it more, use it less because of the way the costs were shifting? Right. Things about subscription have different psychology than the transactional pay per each thing. Right. So what happened to behavior when you did that?
[00:11:30] Speaker B: And this is probably 2019, so it's been quite some time, but it sort of kept this base plan so people were still using credits. It just was. That was the only sort of subscription model. So we started to build out, you know, more of the, a multi prong SaaS. Right? So we had subscription for the plan, we had seat revenue, we had transaction revenue, we didn't do any services Even today we don't, don't do the services. And then we started to layer on add ons, right, Certain products and those sort of things. So that I think what, what we wanted to really prove was can we create a flexible variable platform that would allow that expandability and that growth. And then let's take a look and using that data, let's then create plans based on that information. And so I wouldn't call it a winner takes all approach, but it was like, hey, let's just throw it out to the world. Let's understand this volume, understand that customer profile and then we can start to layer out some of those plans. So today, you know, now it's, you know, 29, 49 and then how many credits and then more importantly, how do we be competitive? So we're going through a whole pricing thing now and it's, it's revealing a lot. It's also pretty scary because then you're like, oh my gosh, how are we going to, what are we going to do about those people? And so as the business has matured, it really has illuminated who are the core customers, right? What types of businesses, what use cases? I think above anything that's probably the most important.
And then how does that use case then tie to where they, where they're at from a revenue perspective, from a subscription perspective, and then an estimated volume based on seats. You know, the challenge is, especially in our space is how many messages you know, do you send? And if you've never done it before, it's actually a difficult question. And now they just, they don't know, right? And so how we have sold that is either a, you're coming from another platform, so we know your volume, right? How many seats you have, what the volume is from your other platform, but if you're brand new to it, you just don't know. And so we sort of took a HubSpot model where hey, let's get them into the platform, allow them to experience that and over time, you know, going through expansion mechanisms so as they reach those certain tiers or volume, we can, you know, push them into, into those plans. We've toyed with sort of this auto upgrade which you know, has its pros and its cons where, hey, you reach that certain level and you know, you have sort of this, right, it could get out, out of control pretty quickly.
But we've still kept this sort of auto recharge model in the business that has always just allowed that flexibility because you know, you need credits in your, in your system.
In your plan or in your account to.
To send those messages, to make those calls. And if those go to zero, well, then it effectively stops. So it allows for that flexibility with things. But I dig it.
[00:14:31] Speaker A: It makes a lot of sense. I dig it. I think there's a couple things there. One is that 10 bucks, easy, low friction, low entry. You don't even have to think about it that much. You get in there. But again, you were mostly on that transactional revenue basis. It's kind of a pay as you go in a way. Right. But what you just said to me, I think it should resonate with a lot of folks out there thinking about, how do I solve this? How do I think about the right amount of flexibility and friction and all those key things in the plans? And at this stage, you said 2949. Right. The big thing that I took away is let them get in, let them win, and then from there you learn, and then you can adjust kind of where they settle in from a credit to pricing and all that stuff. Perspective, right? So there's a. I think you're building, learning into your models. What it sounds like, am I. Am I shoving words in your mouth or is that what you. What you guys are doing?
[00:15:16] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, those were the stages from which we had to learn, right? Like, how do you enter into a market that is somewhat competitive? And so you have to find your place in space, especially as an early product. And so it was that entrance in the market, and I'm seeing competitors come out like, well, the only way that they're going to win is they have to be the cheapest price. So they're going to get a bunch of those customers, hopefully generate revenue, and then get to a certain point to where they can inch up the price, because they can't always be, you know, the cheapest guy on the block. And so, you know, at one point we were. But we had to expand out. Obviously, we added more value, more product. And carving out, hey, this is that type of customer.
This, you know, customer's using this set of products. The challenge is always, well, how do you then engineer your product to match a newer price model that you want to. That you want to take on? And so early, it's pretty simple. But as you build out the product, hopefully you've architected in a way that you can start to carve out some of those products with feature gates. Um, and we've slowly done that. It's been more of a challenge than anything. But, yeah, it's, you know, going from, I Will say this. I mean, the, the move towards getting somebody from monthly to annual has always happened after about three months. So it's very unlikely in our experience that we're able to push somebody into a straight annual plan.
We know that. Right. We know that. Why? Let's get them into the platform, let's get them using it, let's share the value, and then here's the opportunity to save money. Once you sort of prove into, you know that, that it can work for you. And that's worked out really, really well. So customer success can enter in the conversation. You know, there's also just some mechanisms. So when somebody reaches a threshold, that becomes an opportunity, a trigger. So you've got risks, you have opportunities. So these sort of pricing ceilings, they trigger our team to engage with them, to have that conversation for exp.
And that's been, that's been a really awesome, just simple program we put together. And at the end of the day, when you're seeing value, it's either you can have this and stay here and using sort of the loss versus the gain.
Every day that you don't say yes to move to this plan, you're losing or you're spending $100 a month. Right. And so we've actually like productized that within the product. So when they reach these thresholds, hey, you're losing 50 bucks a day or you're spending an additional $200 a day by staying on this plan. Just say yes. And now it just makes it such an effortless way to move them into annual, which for us, obviously annual is great because now there's a lot lower churn and, but, but there has to be a good mechanism to do it. And so these trigger point opportunities are like the easiest ones for us.
[00:18:03] Speaker A: Yeah, the triggers. Listen, I think that is a huge takeaway for a lot of folks listening here. Right? To me, triggers and timing are very underut tools in pricing and packaging. Right. So you've been able to build a system around finding the moments where there's a trigger and then you could sort of present the right plan that changes the way you exchange value with them. They get more value, you get more revenue. It's a beautiful thing. But a lot of folks kind of leave that to happen stance. You know, they kind of leave it like, ah, well, maybe they will, maybe they won't. Let's wait till renewal, let's wait all these key things. But no, like you've actually you're watching for those moments for those triggers, and then you're, you're presenting right at the moment. And then you're also even having a. I think. Which is fantastic. Which is like the cost of not doing this or what you're. What you're missing by not doing this and sort of highlighting that in front of them. Because, believe it or not, no, I don't care what people say. When folks are using your product, they're just solving their problem and moving on to the next thing on their day, on their plate. They're not really thinking about the value. They just want to use it to get the thing done that they want to get done and then move on. But that reminder again, between the triggers and how much is costing by not going and changing, I think is. Is a. Is a very, very powerful move. Man, that. That's a big one for me. I think we've kind of slipped from the past into the present, because you're doing that today and it's working really well.
You're saying that also the three months when somebody joins you don't get them at the annual out of the gate. I think that makes a lot of sense, especially in a highly competitive sales and marketing software kind of sector of SaaS. There are a lot of tools out there. Some of them make big, bold claims, don't deliver. Some of them are fantastic. You get hooked right away. And so you let them use you for a little bit and then they convert over to the annual. I think that's something I call patient revenue. Right. So you're kind of getting, let them get in, let them win, like I said, and then you move on. And then now you're like, okay, now I'd like this thing. I don't see myself ripping it out. Let's go ahead and switch over to an annual, which locks in more revenue and predictability for you, more value and some longevity for them. And so I. I think that's fantastic. When you go into annual, you're probably discounting these days, right? A lot of companies do it very standard. A lot of companies discount mostly between 15 and 20% when it comes to moving to annual. I've seen 10%. I've even seen five in some cases.
Where did you land? And just. But more importantly, like, just tell me why you landed at that discount.
[00:20:21] Speaker B: Yeah, Honestly, I think it's probably a standard, you know, approach we took of. I always liked just two months free. It's just. It sounds better. Yeah. And so we just sort of stuck with that. Two months free. I think it's like 16.7%. I've got Excel, Spreadsheets that, you know, that go into, like, the exact amount of discount. And that was just pretty simple for us. Pretty standard. But. But actually, you know, one. I think this is probably the biggest thing that made a huge difference for us is sometimes, you know, we're working a large deal. You know, cash flow is always an issue. And so, yes, you can save the 20%, but you're going to have to pay 50,000 bucks or $100,000. Right. And then, you know, the challenge was the team was always, well, if they're not going to do that, all right, well, let's just do month to month. And it's like, that's actually the last thing you should do. So the one thing that we tested like two years ago, I'm like, just try this. Let's see what this is. And it's the introduction of payment plans. So look, you want to lock in these folks for the annual. And in order to save that discount, hey, one thing we can do, we can break it up into two or three payments. Which would you prefer? Well, we could do two payments, three payments. And so that's the way to maintain it. So rather than waiting 12 months or once a quarter, you know, or once every six months on semi, you can get a payment plan and get paid in 60 days or in 30 days. So first payment today, next payment in 30 days. And so it's just like, allows you to get your cash like today or a lot sooner than expanding it out over 12 months. So we just have a simple tier system. So, hey, the biggest discount is going to be annual, paid upfront. Awesome. You can pay upfront. If not, we can break it up into two payments. Could you do that? Yes. Right or no? Okay, what about three payments?
You know, and so you're. You're maintaining because it's all around that. That frequency and that again, getting that cash as soon as. As soon as possible. If not, then sure, we can break it into semi or we can break it into quarterly, but month to month, and that's just a sliding scale of discount. Right. So the contract value, you'll get a discount on that. And then the discount really happens on a frequency basis. So what's the frequency? Month to month for us is the longest, but it also is the most cash flow, you know, for the business. The cash flow is typically the big part of it, but it's got to be an ebb and flow for what we can give. And. And yeah, yeah, I like that a lot.
[00:22:46] Speaker A: I think folks jump straight from annual to month to Month. And forget about these areas in the middle that could be very beneficial to the business. Right? So you take it, you're like, all right, two months free, you give me all the money up front, right? They're making a commitment, they're giving you all the cash now, so they deserve a little bit more of a break. But then instead of just flipping to the month to month, you give them the option to, well, okay, you can't do it all in one payment. Fine, what if you did two? What about three? Now they may not get the full two months discount. Maybe that scales down a little bit. Right, right. Then as you, as you walk down your options, then you can land and all those areas that you land in the middle, even between annual and month to month, help the business on a cash flow basis because you get more money, right? Get more money. So in the end, I think that's, I think that's a smart move, ninja move that folks are listening to here, right? So that's working today, present wise. Let's look into the future for a minute, right? And I'm going to poke you a little bit because AI is coming, everybody's talking about it, right? Everything's automated. You got all these great tools out there that could do all these amazing things. You made your reputation on automating, on taking things that were manual emails, moving them into automated text, really increasing the touch, increasing the frequency. You've done a great job because you wouldn't be growing if you weren't. But now AI is here and are you, are you riding that horse? Are you worried about it? Are you loving it? What's your point of view on AI? And then I want to ask you, how do you plan on changing the business model and pricing as a result? So let's start with your point of view.
[00:24:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, first of all, it is changing every single day, right? And I think for business owners and entrepreneurs, it's like, whoa, oh my gosh. I mean, it is somewhat frightening, but also there is this opportunity. The thing is, unless you are constantly innovating and keeping up, you're getting left behind, right? And so every day that, that the innovation is not happening, someone else is, some new startups happening, you know, being created to disrupt all the incumbents. There's a really phenomenal article, Brian Balford at Reforge, and it's called the Product Market Fit Collapse. If you haven't read it, phenomenal article. But it's this idea of, you know, you have businesses that have built products and software to solve an App like to solve a problem, right? And the way in which they're solving that problem is all these things that you have to do to get it set up, configured, complete, you know, all the things in between. Then AI comes in and says, that's really cute.
You can get that done in one click. And so, you know, you have these companies that are just freaking out. So we have been very innovative in our future around AI. And so I believe a world of conversations is AI driven. And so today, you know, the conversations you're having with your dealership, right, Your furniture store, all of those conversations, because it's faster, it's cheaper, it's 24 7, and it can speak in the way that they want to be spoken to and can solve those problems. Every business is going to move towards that. Right? And so you're already seeing it. I'm seeing it all the time. So conversations are going to be purely AI driven. You can have a human on the back end, but it's always going to be AI first. So that's calls and that's text. And so. Okay, well, what does that do to a seat model? Well, if you have a lot of revenue tied into a seat model, guess what? As your business becomes more efficient, your seat model starts to diminish. And so if you built a business on seats in this world of AI, that's going to be a disruptor from a revenue perspective. So these incumbents that built on seats are going to be disrupted unless they have this new innovation on how they're going to move towards, you know, performance base. So for us, we're thinking a lot around, you know, we have a substantial amount of revenue on seats. Okay, well, as businesses move towards efficiency and seats go down, we need to displace and replace revenue with this AI sort of performance base that could be in a per call. I mean, we're thinking per lead, right? It could be on per engagement, per conversation. You know, there's a lot of ways that we're thinking about that. But Intercom for us has really been a model for what it looks like to provide value. And in exchange for that value, give us 99 cents. And so, you know, we believe that's a world where ultimately it's going to head towards and it is a tidal wave that is going to hit the world from communication, you know, and so we want to be at the forefront of that. So we built some really great products around the generative AI in the beginning. Right? Hey, rephrase this. You know, we're a texting platform. Hey, rephrase this, do that. Okay, cool, that's great. But, but what's next? So we built out our AI agents sort of feature and product and so that's, you know, booking agent, that is a lead qualification, that is, you know, a knowledge base, you know, customer service agent and those are all different jobs within the company.
So okay, well that job is a little bit different than this job. And so do we price that differently? Do we just have sort of a blanket approach to, you know, does it matter what it is? But as long as that outcome is, you know, either a, the customer tells us or there is some sort of outcome of value. So we could come in and say, hey, you know what, maybe texts are totally free and then all you pay is performance. And then you've got the whole model just shifted. Right. So there's all this thinking around how do we approach that, what do we do? Do we get ahead of it? Do we disrupt ourselves and you know, sort of sweep into the market and those things. So we're not there yet, but I think we're placing some bets that I think will be exciting.
A little nerve, nerve wracking but you know, just seeing where the future is going. It's, it's towards that and we're either going to create that future or we're going to be behind in that future and get disrupted. So hey, let's disrupt ourselves and get there first.
[00:28:42] Speaker A: You may as well, right? At least you get a little bit more in your hands there. I think that it all makes tremendous sense and I'm excited to see what you end up doing because I know those options are all in front of you on the table. I think Intercom did a great job of really thinking through that shift for them because they were agent seats for quite a while and they still are to a degree. But what's happening is with their AI agent coming in, they the 99 cents, which is a classic charm pricing, right that they're using and they're embedding it and they even, you know, with their co pilot even saying, hey, why don't you. First five calls are on us, first ten calls are on us or whatever really get like lean you into that. I think that's, that's, that's a brilliant balance of being able to, to charge on a outcome basis without scaring the hell or confusing the hell out of your customers. Right. I think that's one of the big balancing acts that most companies are trying to do. And so you know, I think, you know, going through your journey from a 10 bucks, simple as a pimple. Right. To now thinking about outcomes, $0.99 per lead or whatever. Right. Big, big journey all the way around 2017 to today. You're talking about eight years of changing and learning. I want to know, just to wrap up this piece here is what is the number one triumph and the number one trap. So the number one triumph, meaning I'm really glad we did that back then. That was a big move for us. And then the number one trap was, oh, I wish we didn't do that because. So let's start with the triumph, man. What's number one for you?
[00:30:05] Speaker B: Yeah, it was actually both a triumph and I like it, Tribulation, whatever it is. But you know, we built the company early on and hit a, a point in the business where it was at a crossroads from a future development.
And so it was a very tough thing to do, but I had to find a new co founder and a cto. And so it was probably the, the hardest, absolute hardest thing thing to do and scary thing to do. And on the other side, it was the best thing that ever happened. And so I'm in California with my co founder. We've been, you know, working together for the last five years and that's just been, that's been a massive triumph where before it was like, let's go, we're going to go there and realizing I don't know if we're actually going to do that to a future of like, hey, we're going to go there and we're actually going to make it happen. And so just having, you know, great people on the team, that has been just a game changer now. There's been a lot that I've had to give up, you know, from as you've added more team and more accountability and, you know, different folks within the organization.
Sometimes I feel the dumbest person in the room and I'm like, wait, should I be the dumbest person in the room? I guess I should be.
But yeah, that's always been the hardest part is finding amazing talents and great people and building a culture around that. You know, being a remote company, it has some of its challenges. But yeah, I would say that's it is finding great people that believe in the future that, that we see is going to happen and feeling confident we can actually create it. I think a lot of companies that are not able to innovate and change, they're they, they and they can't because they're stuck with maybe the team or the tech. They're just, they're done, they're done. And I'm already, it's funny, I'm getting a lot of sims in from other companies, like, hey, you know, we're selling the company. And I'm like, oh, that's interesting. Maybe it's because you're just, you can't innovate, right? So there's this opportunity like, oh my God, I gotta get out before it happens. Before it. And guess what?
Yeah. And it's going to happen because now the, the, the it is table stakes to have AI. And so, you know, you can say that in a million different ways, but in our world, it's table stakes to have an AI agent. It's table stakes to have AI conversations. Table stakes to have this. And if you don't, well then gone, right? Because once they see a new innovation and an old way of doing things in a new way, there's your collapse. So team and talent and tech man, because without that, you're done.
[00:32:37] Speaker A: That's really what it comes down to. There's no working around, driving around all that you have. It has to come down to that, that. And so that shift for you, that shift in the co founder, in the, the mentality in the team and the shit.
The shit and the shift, right?
And then you also think about now you're able to sort of have a little more clarity and then if not clarity, the work to get to clarity, I think is one of the big things that the best teams go out and do. And you will feel dumber, right? As you get move up in leadership, expand teams, do other things, you will feel like, damn, I used to know everything in the room, I used to have all the answers, but now not so much. My team is. But it's a, it is an adjustment, but it's a very good one. Right? And I think there's a, a lot to say for you on that one. Chris. Chris, you've been amazing, man. Raw. Telling it like it is revealing. I think a lot of SaaS operators are going to learn from you today, man. So thank you for coming on. Would you be willing, willing to come back?
[00:33:33] Speaker B: Yes. Let's do it, man. This is fun. We'll give you the next update on our pricing, which.
[00:33:38] Speaker A: Where did you land with the AI thing? Like, yes, that would be amazing to know. But before we, we wrap up here, I do have one more question for you. It's my favorite question of all and it's more about you. And I want to understand what is that one song that you can play over and over again that lights you up. Bonus if it's a hip hop song. But what is the one song that jumps into your mind? Don't overthink it.
[00:33:58] Speaker B: Yeah, it's Zach Brian and it's a motorcycle drive by. Goodbye. And that's just a, a family song of a lot of good memories. With my two kids, my wife and I could play that song and just it hits, you know, and so my family loves it. We love it. It's like it's the perfect song for us. So that's a, that's a, that's a beautiful song.
[00:34:21] Speaker A: Very family. Zach Bryan. And also the thing about music is it leads to memories and if it leads to those pleasant, pleasant thoughts. Right? Everyone knows that what song was playing back in the day when that happened or this happened, Right? So excellent one there. And thank you again for coming in and sharing your major, major knowledge around that so team. That was Chris Bresson, all right. And he is the CEO and co founder of Sales Message. Follow Check them out all the good things around that too. And listen to what he said. Listen to those big lessons about building in that learning about, you know, taking a step back and resetting with a new co founder, which is scary but sometimes necessary. Right? And so think about it, take it, get 1% better. Move away from that guesswork. Okay? So remember, stop guessing and start growing. Until next time, thank you and much.
[00:35:12] Speaker C: Love for listening to the Street Pricing podcast with Marcos Rivera. We hope you enjoyed this episode. And don't forget to like and subscribe. If you want to learn more about capturing value, pick up a copy of Street Pricing on Amazon. Until next time.
